Electrolicious

19 Responses to “Election Eve”

1. Casey
   November 4th, 2002 at 9:07 pm

   

   Yeah, I voted…and I didn’t know about what was happening in Seattle with the ballots, but I live in South Dakota, and it seems as if everyone wants to vote in our election, as in the past few weeks, people have risen for the dead, just to register and vote. Its a real mess.

   I believe if we want to complain about the political system we should vote, if you don’t vote, than don’t complain about who gets elected.

   I also had to vote as their were some really bad constitutional ammendments on our ballot this year.

   Sorry for the longish rant, but I really do believe in voting.

2. philippe
   November 5th, 2002 at 4:48 am

   

   Well, he can’t run for Pdt, unless the constitution is amended, hmm ?
   I probably would feel as frightened as you if Schwarzy were to became Pdt. But I’m not sure it is for a good reason.
   Because he’s an actor ?
   Because he’s a bad actor ?
   Because he’s a succesfull actor ?
   Because he’s a republican ?
   Because he’s a body builder ?
   Because he’s not a professional of politics ?

3. amy
   November 5th, 2002 at 6:25 am

   

   I have to disagree with the first commenter; although I am voting in this election, I believe abstaining is a viable alternative to voting when your conscience dictates. What if the only two candidates are vying for who is more anti-drug, more tough on crime, etc.? Between fascism and fascism, I choose nothing. I dunno, maybe I should write in my own name? Does that give me the right to complain?

4. philippe
   November 5th, 2002 at 7:36 am

   

   Amy, I have to disagree also !
   Here in France, in the second turn of the presidential, we had to choose between a conservative candidate and a real neo-fascist one. And we (’liberal’) had to vote for a conservative because of those who didn’t vote during the first round or wasted their voice on phony candidates. It was a hard lesson, but an easy choice.
   In my opinion, you must choose between 2 candidates, because one of them is going to be elected anyway and you won’t escape this. In a restaurant, if you don’t like the menu, you leave and eat somewhere else. You can’t do this in politics.

5. dc
   November 5th, 2002 at 7:37 am

   

   regardless of your thoughts or convictions, you ought to vote. in almost every case there is a a third party candidate or an underdog to vote for, thereby canceling out another person’s vote for the oh-so-very-detestable other. here in AZ we have a great Prop. on ballot. 203…go look it up. i DO hope it passes, for less than obvious reasons.

6. philippe
   November 5th, 2002 at 7:39 am

   

   Ok, it looks awfully pompous.
   Sorry

7. amy
   November 5th, 2002 at 7:46 am

   

   If it’s a question of a greater or lesser evil, then by all means, vote for the lesser. But what about equally evil people? Who would you vote for, Stalin or Hitler?

8. philippe
   November 5th, 2002 at 7:58 am

   

   Actually, if emigration is not an option, I think I would vote to Stalin. His ideology was not intrisically evil, and was ultimately reformed.
   But it’s a rethorical question, isn’t it ? Isn’t it always a question of a greater or a lesser evil ?

9. Casey
   November 5th, 2002 at 8:25 am

   

   I would like to clarify what I meant in my first comment as it pertains to voting.

   I am speaking of voting in the general sense. Here for instance (not sure how other countries do it) but there are many races, and many ammendments to vote on in each election.

   I do not have any objection to abstaining in a particular race, if I did I would be a hypocrit as their was I did not vote in the House of Representative race. I chose to abstain due to the fact that neither of the main 2 party candidates were people I agreed with idialistically and I might have voted for the third party candidate if I knew anything about any of their positions but as it was I didn’t even know there was a third-party candidate until I got the ballot.

   What I am speaking of when I talk about people not having the right to complain, is more of a specific kind of person.
   It happens quite a bit in this country, where a person will support 1 candidate, but not bother to vote. As hard as it is even for me to believe I know it happens, and then those people complain if the candidate they like doesn’t get elected. Well, they had the oppertunity to support the candidate with a vote, and did not do so, so to me they lose their right to complain.
   As stated, I have no problem with abstention, if a person has a strong objection to all candidates. I do have a problem to apethetic abstention, where people choose not to vote, for various reasons, having little or nothing to do with politics. Yet, it is often these people that I hear complaining more than anyone about the way the elections turn out, and no matter who wins or loses they aren’t happy.
   I don’t know, maybe I come from a weird state, and maybe that doesn’t happen anywhere else, but I see it all the time.

   Sorry to turn this in to an essay, its a product of years on the debate team.

   Peace…

10. amy
    November 5th, 2002 at 9:00 am

    

    Thanks for the clarification. I agree completely.

11. Ariel
    November 5th, 2002 at 9:24 am

    

    I love that Philippe was able to give an informed answer to the rhetorical question, “Stalin or Hitler?”

    I also think France’s recent election was an important lesson about apathy’s affect on politics, just as Tom Ammiano’s 1999 write-in campaign for San Francisco Mayor was an excellent lesson on activism’s affect on politics.

12. Crystal
    November 5th, 2002 at 12:18 pm

    

    last night i got this lame e-mail repsonse from my congressman david vitter re: the nefarious plot to kill indie internet radio. an excerpt:

    “I am in favor of artists and recording labels receiving fair compensation for their works. However, I am very concerned that the royalty rates set are high enough that most internet radio stations can’t compete, and will be forced to close. You’ll be glad to know that web casters and copyright owners recently struck a deal on the issue of royalties. ”

    no, congressman vitter, i am not “glad” about that.

    and when i went to vote today, no one, really was running against him. i had to vote for monica monica purely on the grounds of the poetic perversity of it all. monica.

    and we had all these constitutional amendments to vote on.

    it took a while.

    and, oh, man… the federal prosecutor guy here in new orleans who went after the state palace theater under the crack house statute is in a run-off for d.a. today. more on that case here

13. Jake
    November 5th, 2002 at 1:13 pm

    

    I acually made a web button that reads “I didn’t Vote” for the voters like myself that chose to sit this election out.

14. mike
    November 5th, 2002 at 3:03 pm

    

    I can’t say i agree with abstaining from voting weither political or apathetic. Abstaining for political reason gets no message across, US voter turnout is already below 50% and no one seems to be doing anything about it. I think a better option would be to spoil your ballat (writing your own name is one way to do it.) If everyone who isn’t voting this election or is disatisfied with the options spoiled their ballot it would definatly be noticed, since more ballots were spoiled then votes cast. This would show something is very wrong.

    Also, Though hitler was bad, stalin was a much worse guy to have in charge. During his reign he killed more then 20 million of his own people, 20 million! That’s almost the population of canada (where i live) and the nazis did have an evil logic, stalin was just nuts. When he didn’t have enough engineers to build a highway, he had them arrested and sentinced to work on it, then, when they realized they didn’t have enough concret to finish, they killed all the workers/prisoners and threw them in for filler. They had plenty of prisoners too because besides being able to label anyone an enemy of the people and arrest them, anyone related to or connecteed with them was also an enemy of the people, and so, before long everyone in the country was an enemy of the people.

    The nazi’s have become the classic villian because they have flashier outfits and are prone to long dramatic rants about aryan supermen and whatnot while the stalinists would come quietly in the night in their long drabe coats and you would simply disappear.

    Sorry to get so serious and depressing but it’s important that we all make our political voices heard so we can keep this sort of thing happening here and try to stop it where it is happening elsewhere in the world. Not to say I support war in iraq, hussein is bad but i don’t think bush has clean motives for doing it, and that makes all the difference. That’s all i have to say. Check you later.

15. Choire
    November 5th, 2002 at 3:39 pm

    

    In Robert’s Rules, an abstention is a vote. There are yays, nays, and abstentions. Each of these three votes counts towards the voting body. Abstentions and no votes can cause a motion to fail.

    Not voting is your fourth option in a forum run by Roberts Rules. You don’t count in the voting body, and your “non-vote” doesn’t matter in the outcome of the matter decided.

    In an election, not voting is not similar to an abstention, nor is it a protest. If it is a protest, it is indistinguishable from apathy. If you don’t come to school one day out of protest, it is indistinguishable from not coming to school because you hate it and don’t care to attend any longer.

    Not voting is neither a clear message or a useful tool. As far as I’m concerned, you better take a lot of action to make up for your not voting, because when green or liberal or working family party candidates lose, it’s because of you. When OUR representatives vote to go to war or work to repeal abortion rights, it’s YOUR non-voting fault.

16. mike
    November 5th, 2002 at 4:06 pm

    

    I didn’t know you could abstain, that’s much better then spoiled ballots. They really should teach you this stuff in school.

17. Choire
    November 5th, 2002 at 4:10 pm

    

    I guess maybe an abstention in America is a spoiled ballot. Take a boxcutter through it.

    Although, here in New York, there is no write-in or other marking of the ballot allowed. Our ballot machines have a little lever to turn to mark an “X”, and you can only turn one, so you can’t spoil it by voting for two candidates. Isn’t that strange? I thought I got to vote for anyone I wanted? Guess not.

18. kim
    November 11th, 2002 at 8:47 am

    

    “I have to disagree with the first commenter; although I am voting in this election, I believe abstaining is a viable alternative to voting when your conscience dictates. What if the only two candidates are vying for who is more anti-drug, more tough on crime, etc.? Between fascism and fascism, I choose nothing.”
    …….

    but there are almost never only two candidates. every year in the u.s., for example, a huge amount of people run for president.. something like 200. even after many of those are eliminated, there are still always choices other than democrat vs. republican. people just ignore them.

    i can totally understand disliking the policies of the dominant political candidates and seeing them as equally bad. that’s why it’s even MORE important to vote for a different choice. it’s so expensive to run that people won’t do it if they think it’s pointless, so not voting for alternative candidates perpetuates the process. if everyone who didn’t vote started voting for a new political party for example…

19. Anonymous
    November 15th, 2002 at 1:33 am

    

    Sorry philippe, but Stalin’s ideology was indeed intrinsically evil. And Nazi Germany was “reformed” a lot sooner than Soviet Russia!

    In any case, you vote for the greater good not the lesser evil.